tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post1102858153612686146..comments2023-10-31T12:17:42.008+00:00Comments on Adventures in the Print Trade: My carnal life I will lay downNeilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18020242863144175965noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-76176987555907073832009-07-08T09:29:52.529+01:002009-07-08T09:29:52.529+01:00Hi Tara, sorry to take so long to reply! Yes, thos...Hi Tara, sorry to take so long to reply! Yes, those empty eyes are spooky, aren't they. I saw someone with eyes just like them in Gatwick Airport last week. But it may just have been jetlag...Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020242863144175965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-91114002653091723522009-06-24T20:22:38.705+01:002009-06-24T20:22:38.705+01:00Incredible image, with the usual, eerie "empt...Incredible image, with the usual, eerie "empty eyes" so characteristic of rop's women...I have never seen this one and appreciate you sharing!{Tara}https://www.blogger.com/profile/00983868577862685234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-42966942572956028442009-05-15T22:50:00.000+01:002009-05-15T22:50:00.000+01:00How lovely to share your memories, Ingrid. I'm sur...How lovely to share your memories, Ingrid. I'm sure you're right that Rops didn't have a clue about the essence of the Shakers. But I also think that the element of spiritual elevation in Shaker worship - the bit that made them "shake" - was probably much more prevailing in the early years than by 1952, when the remaining Shakers must have realised that the Shaker movement was fading out. In England the Muggletonians (really, another more mystically-charged variation on Quakerism) were at a very similar stage.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020242863144175965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-70322468909357582962009-05-15T19:01:00.000+01:002009-05-15T19:01:00.000+01:00Neil, I don’t know if I am wearing this out (you a...Neil, I don’t know if I am wearing this out (you appear interested), however; that Rops, with a touch of Aubrey Beardsley and Toulouse-Lautrec, was so taken by what he saw as Shaker mysticism is odd. No community considered themselves more sensible, and practical than the Shakers. And indeed they were. They were inventers, and efficiency experts, giving us today a long list of useful tricks, and simple machines, which we use, and don’t even know the origin of. Living the simple life in the extreme, but not weirdly, nor otherworldly, the Shakers seem to me the epitome of 19th C. American Yankee ‘can do’ (part of de Tocqueville’s American experiment?). Their problem was celibacy. You can’t enlarge, or continue a functioning community practicing it. <br /><br />The Shakers I met in 1952, all three of the gentle old ladies, at the West Lebanon (now rebuilt as Hancock, Massachusetts Shaker Village Museum) community, were busy baking pies, and making jelly and jam when I (age twelve) was introduced. They wore simple grey-blue frocks, a bit above the ankles, white aprons, and a soft linen cap with their hair tucked away. They were about as un-mystical as any trio of busy old ladies could be. Their community was dying as they continued to try to support themselves on what they cooked. I still remember the circular stone barn with holes in the roof, and piles of old hay covering the missing planks in the floor. I was warned not to walk on it. Some time after, they moved to the Sabbath Day Lake community, in New Hampshire.<br /><br /><br />I wonder what the Shakers would have thought of Felicien Rops’ interpretation of Shakerisum. Enough. But fun. Thanks for your endurance, Ingrid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-2659418377088873042009-05-11T11:50:00.000+01:002009-05-11T11:50:00.000+01:00I think you're right, Ingrid. The woman depicted s...I think you're right, Ingrid. The woman depicted simply doesn't seem as modest and decorous as you would expect. Even if this was some kind of performance staged by Shaker breakaways you would expect them to adopt standard Shaker dress. So this print is a real mystery. Rops obviously thought he was witnessing a genuine Shaker service...Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020242863144175965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-81896152509665872672009-05-08T02:44:00.000+01:002009-05-08T02:44:00.000+01:00I'm a bit of a neophyte at this, but many years ag...I'm a bit of a neophyte at this, but many years ago I grew up in Old Chatham, NY, home of the Shaker Museum (also not far from the incredible circular stone barn, which was part of the old Hancock Shaker Village on the way into Pittsfield, Massachusetts). I think Rops was exaggerating, and perhaps extrapolating (for his own kind of artistic drama). No self respecting Shaker woman would ever be seen without her hair covered by a simple white bonnet, or linen cap, and I think it unlikely that there would be a public performance away from the colony (of course it doesn't mean it didn't happen), because simplicity, humility, and modesty were the rule. <br />By-the-way, I'm not entirely anon. my great grandfather was the one from Drobak, Norway ... 1851-1935.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-71182577030936029232009-04-26T20:31:00.000+01:002009-04-26T20:31:00.000+01:00Rops among the Shakers: what a surprise. You could...Rops among the Shakers: what a surprise. You could knock me down with a feather - or a broom anyway. I agree with Amanda about the appearance of the woman but however you see it, it's a strong image. Thanks once more for your continuing revelations.Philip Wilkinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04893714514416441572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-70747093827332050372009-04-19T19:11:00.000+01:002009-04-19T19:11:00.000+01:00Neil, my mother lived in Buffalo for three years, ...Neil, my mother lived in Buffalo for three years, a city that is quite art-proud, so to speak. I don't recall any mention of the Shakers at the Buffalo-Erie County Historical Society (which doesn't mean it wasn't there, of course). By the way, the building was designed for the 1901 International Exposition, the one that is remembered for President McKinley's assassination, sadly.Janehttp://www.thebluelantern.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-23210911318558837462009-04-18T23:01:00.000+01:002009-04-18T23:01:00.000+01:00Thinking about getting cities mixed-up, I haven't ...Thinking about getting cities mixed-up, I haven't seen either of the two earlier states of this etching, and I wonder if they have the Buffalo inscription. Because if it was done several years later, it's perfectly likely he just got it wrong.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020242863144175965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-57066825389880648132009-04-18T22:58:00.000+01:002009-04-18T22:58:00.000+01:00Yes, Amanda, she does look a bit "possessed", does...Yes, Amanda, she does look a bit "possessed", doesn't she. But, in a way, for Rops a Shaker service and a witches' Sabbat would have been virtually identical.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020242863144175965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-44647320981399971212009-04-18T22:56:00.000+01:002009-04-18T22:56:00.000+01:00Jane - That's very interesting. I looked in variou...Jane - That's very interesting. I looked in various books I have for a Shaker community in Buffalo and didn't find anything - which just makes me wonder if there was some kind of public performance of Shaker songs going on in the 1880s, maybe by ex-Shakers. Because I find it hard to imagine Shakers welcoming Rops into their worship. So this is a bit of a poser.Neilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18020242863144175965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-5572504523083492042009-04-18T21:41:00.000+01:002009-04-18T21:41:00.000+01:00Oh goodness, leave it to Rops to make a Shaker loo...Oh goodness, leave it to Rops to make a Shaker look a tad diabolical and not a little alluring (which I guess would be my interpretation of "spiritual rapture and otherworldliness" in this case!). As always, a wonderful post. I had no idea Rops was etching Shakers in the US either.Amandahttp://illusoryconfections.typepad.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-340634554199883217.post-32407179561641954482009-04-18T19:11:00.000+01:002009-04-18T19:11:00.000+01:00What a mystery. I wonder if Rops got his cities mi...What a mystery. I wonder if Rops got his cities mixed up? Buffalo is at the west end of the Erie Canal and it is at the eastern end, in the Capitol District, that there was a large Shaker community in places like Niskayuna, Colonie, and Watervliet, not to mention further east, in western Massachusetts.Janehttp://www.thebluelantern.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com